That summed up my initial reaction to this post from Kindred responding to John Quiggin on the decline of the US.
Reasonable people can (and often do) disagree about the normative implications of the particular ways in which the US exercises its influence, and may disagree about whether it would be desirable for the US to possess even greater influence. But I would argue that the US continues to have considerable impact on the international system, and it may be easy to underestimate this influence when current events remind us that possessing greater military capabilities than the rest of the world (combined) is no guarantee that one will always get one's way.
Nonetheless, it is worth asking whether the rate at which greater expenditures on military capabilities translates into a greater ability to influence political outcomes fully justifies the costs (both direct and indirect, as a dollar spent on the military is a dollar not put toward some other purpose). It is far from obvious that the optimal level of spending for the US is as high as current spending.
UPDATE: Edited for more neutral language. See also the comments below.
UPDATE II: This post has been getting a lot of traffic from other people's links, while two posts I've since made that were intended to follow up on this conversation aren't. So anyone who's arriving here from elsewhere, please do also read here and here.
One more thought, in response to Dan Drezner's conjecture that we may be seeing the End of Power (very cool title).
Even if it is true that the costs of engaging in interstate war have increased (which I think many scholars would inclined to agree has happened/is still happening), it need not follow that power does not matter.
Deterrence models, which typically assume goods are indivisible, would tell us that if a defender's threat to defend the status quo with force becomes less credible, attempts at compellence become more attractive. Yet compellence becomes less attractive as the attacker's threats to use force become less credible due to their costs of war increasing as well. Simply saying both costs go up doesn't tell us what to expect, unless we further specify which effect is bigger.
In a bargaining framework, one typically finds that conflict is less likely as the costs of war increase. Which may explain the decline of conventional conflict and the increasing tendency of states to outsource violence to non-state actors (see this paper by the incredibly awesome Navin Bapat). But when the good in dispute is assumed to be divisible and the terms of agreements largely respond to the expected outcome of war, the fact that war is less likely to occur only tells us part of what we want to know. Power would still matter for what peace looks like.
So it's not obvious to me that military might is less useful just because the costs of war have increased. It's one thing to observe that the US has had trouble forcing democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan. It's another to ignore the fact that many US allies in many different regions of the world (Colombia, Israel, South Korea, for example) have neighbors who would love to upset the regional status quo (Venezuela, Syria, North Korea), yet nonetheless are doing pretty well for themselves. Ask these states how irrelevant US power is.
Should the US taxpayer be mad that they are being made to foot the bill for the many effects of US power (which I think continue to be overlooked), when they could instead have either lower taxes, a smaller deficit, or more spending on health care and education? Maybe. Probably. But that's a different beast than the claim that power no longer matters or that the US no longer has much of it.
Pressure Not War
2 weeks ago
Can you point to some specific claims to which you object?
ReplyDeleteI would be curious to hear more about why you said that "Precisely because the US is comparable to other advanced countries in many crucial respects, there is no reason to expect any further decline."
ReplyDeleteIf I am misunderstanding your point (which is entirely possible), I apologize, and welcome correction. But I read this part of your post as saying:
1. What influence the US has is no more nor less than any nation with the same level of GDP would have;
and
2. Therefore, the influence the US has currently cannot decline.
I cannot see any reason to disagree with 1), and that is why I updated my original post. I do want to be clear that I think it is important to remember what the appropriate basis of comparison is, and that's not the influence the UK has today, but what influence we might expect a nation like the UK to have if they had a similarly sized population. But I don't see how that gets you to 2).
I'd also contest "In geopolitical terms, the US spends a lot more on its military than anyone else...The amount of sustainable influence generated as a result appears pretty trivial. The number of places in the world where the US can directly determine, or even substantially influence, political outcomes is approximately zero...". But I suppose different people might interpret the words "trivial" and "substantially" differently. So maybe some concrete examples would help.
If the US economy were to grow at, say, 2% on average for the next three decades, and China's economy grew at, conservatively, 5% over that same time period, would this have no implications for the likelihood that Taiwan retains its de facto independence?
We're obviously in the realm of conjecture here, but I'd be inclined to say that it would. But maybe that does not constitute sufficient influence to counter your claim? I certainly don't want to misrepresent your argument.
Upon further reflection, the above example is clearly inadequate, because it is clear that you believe that GDP matters.
ReplyDeleteWould it be correct to say that you contend that if the US were to spend one third as much as it currently does on the military, this would have no appreciable impact on any meaningful political outcomes internationally?
Obviously, there would be some impact - for example, the Iraq war could never have happened if the US was fully occupied by Afghanistan. But the removal of military temptation would have benefitted the US in this case.
ReplyDeleteIn other cases, , US military power is a modest force for good (I'd count Bosnia as one, except that it encouraged the later adventures). But, overall the US would do no worse in geopolitical terms, and would be better off by the hundreds of billions saved every year.
But to confirm your point, I was mostly thinking about economics (I am an economist!). So GDP or national income per person is what counts most for me.
ReplyDeleteIn referring to the military I mainly wanted to debunk the idea that military power confers economic advantages.
That's fair. We might disagree at the margins about the strength of the relationship between military spending and geopolitical influence, but I agree that the costs are often not weighed properly by supporters of defense spending. Which is, in many ways, a little strange, given that most of the supporters of big defense budgets in the US want to see severe cuts to spending in every other area...
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, I think I mistakenly thought you were suggesting that it was not only true that the costs of current levels of spending outweigh the benefits (which I think is a claim worth taking seriously), but that there are indeed essentially no benefits (a claim I would find a bit more puzzling). My apologies.